(Continued conversations between me and M.)
But be clear within yourself that if/when he comes back, and you've past the 8 week point, that it starts the relationship over again from scratch and he needs continued good behavior--not this flaking crap in order for him to catch you into being monogamous...you're the prize--not him. Unfortunately, you can't call him on the flaking other than to say that it doesn't make you feel cherished by him.
Yes, all the flaking was pretty bad. However, if he is in some kind of terrible angst trying to figure out the direction of his life then I'm willing to put it in the past and see what he does from here on in (assuming he comes back). I'm trying to look at this as a necessary healthy time for him since it DID move crazy fast... in more 'normal' courtships that happen over 3,4 months most men would have time to digest what was happening. He hasn't. I just can't imagine myself with anyone else now so it's very painful having to walk away while he figures his stuff out. :(
Correct--we respect a man's space/time to process.
I know not duty dating is not great for me but I guess this is why you shouldn't give away premature exclusivity, as I did.
No, you did what you felt comfortable doing. Exclusivity is a far better situation that a continuous loop of dates without the monogamy, continuity or commitment.
Agree there is no point in mind-reading. But if you are right that he feels he's more into me than vice versa (which in my heart is NOT true) then he's being a little crazy. I mean, aside from ONE snippy text message, I have been consistently receptive, affectionate, giving back, following his lead...
But he may NOT think that way. HE might think that he's further into you than you are to him--especially if he has had women swooning and falling all over him. He may not like the fact that he has to work to keep you. Men aren't women; they think differently than we do. Sex for a man in love is a place for a man to feel connected. You didn't want to feel like you were a booty call; he said that wasn't at all what he wanted. He hadn't seen you and needed to be with you--to wake up with you, to reconnect with you. I think he took that as rejection. I'm not saying that you did anything wrong--because you felt disconnected by him when you didn't see him earlier and weren't comfortable with his wanting to sleep over; but unless you two talk openly about these kinds of things, you can't deepen your emotional intimacy by understanding eachother.
I don't know what he realistically expects after a few weeks of dating. I'm only just now coming to terms with his intensity and realizing he WAS serious when he said all those things. However, looking back, even since date #1 he told me I was "emotionally detached." (The "no soul" comment was more recent.) Iassume it's because girls are always laying it on thick, and chasing him and calling him and I don't? I don't really get it because nobody has ever described me that way before.
This is HIS perception of how he compares you to other women. It may be that one of his non-negotiables is that he have a woman by his side who he perceives is more 'emotionally attached' but should you and he get back together this IS one of the things that the two of you should talk about...and that is that your emotional timeline is just longer than his...that YOU needed more time to suss out your feelings and that it's unfair for him, since the two of you are different people that you should be on exactly the same time line--but you're getting there. I know it bothers him that I haven't opened up about this "secret" question, but I DID reluctantly talk a bit about past relationships when he asked.
He can be upset of your secrets all that he wants--but the truth is that you have the right to tell or not to tell ANYTHING at any time--or not. You don't owe him that--exactly because you haven't built up a trustworthy track record. When I was in my 20's, I had a mentor tell me to never give someone bullets to shoot you with--and I've never forgotten it. How often do dirty little secrets come out in divorce court? When things get ugly, mud starts slinging. *IF* your illness is your deepest secret than the time to tell him about it is at your engagement--that way he has the time to decide if he's willing to take a risk on you. *I* wouldn't tell him beforehand. Some women would wait until after a marriage; but I think that it's fair under the guise of 'full disclosure'. So telling him a lesser secret is appropriate. I'm not even sure that I would know the answer to that question should I be asked since I live my life for the most part secret free.
There is a time and place for secrets with your man--and those are his. A man, as a warrior (and masculine men always consider themselves as such), have to KNOW that their woman has their back as a life and death situation and that she never to is reveal what she has learned about him-- ever. He doesn't know who is or may become an enemy. He can't have his enemies knowing the vulnerability of his soft white underbelly. This is a bigger deal than any man will ever tell you. This is also the reason that men don't apologise. It's it one up, one down; who's the dog and who's the bitch(?) in every circumstance. A man apologising is him admitting that he's one down; don't ever expect it.
Another time, earlier on, he said "I know you're going to break my heart" (I responded - you're going to break mine!). And on another date he said that both of us were incredibly afraid of getting hurt. Which appears to be true... but now he's hurting me anyway :(
Being vulnerable is always appropriate...if you have the opportunity, you should tell him.
I just can't imagine myself with anyone else now so it's very painful having to walk away while he figures his stuff out. :(
You're not walking away--he did. You're just moving on with your life--with or without him. Being a woman means that today, you put on your big girl panties and live appropriately within pain to him. You don't walk around moaning your menstrual cramps; you handle it and move on with your day.
I've written before that I believe that part of being a woman is having a space inside of you that you don't share with a man. He doesn't need to know your bathroom habits, be a witness to your grooming or as politically incorrect as this may be, I don't necessarily believe that a man should be in the delivery room when you have a child. I'm not sure that it's an accident that men revered women and treated them better (as something to be beheld as fragile and to be cherished) when a man waited in the waiting area for hospital staff to announce to him that it was a boy or girl. Does a man really need to know what a woman is like when she is perspiring and screaming and blood is pouring from her? Does that make her more womanly or more manly that she can suffer that pain the way that man would on a battle ground?
It doesn't even make sense that he would break up with me.
He HASN'T BROKEN UP WITH YOU...he just needs some space to figure some things out. If you're not ready to date today, then you're not ready...I'd mark my calander for a week from Sunday--that would be 15 days from contact, right?
He did specifically ask me to stop seeing other guys and date only him, and so yes he knows I took down the profile... we talked about that.
OK so he knows enough to know that if he looks and you put it back up, that you're ready to move on...
The thought of him dating other women makes me feel physically ill.
That's the oxytocin. The natural equivalent of cocaine addiction and withdrawl.
Okay, I see your point. Maybe he also felt disconnected because I had my period when I did see him last (when I tried to apologize for the misunderstanding over the texts the night before) so sex was not in the cards that day. I was affectionate and we cuddled/kissed but maybe it made him feel further apart...who knows.
No way to tell....
I still can't for the life of me understand why he would go all hot and cold and then ultimately pull away after that without even wanting to SEE me. Can you shed any light on this?? I just don't get why he can't process or whatever and still see me... especially since we haven't even had a chance to properly talk :(
Because, as Pat says, men fall in love during the spaces...they need to miss you, yearn for you, refuel his desire for you and ultimately capture you--again. Men need to know that whatever happens in the outside world, that within the four corners of your relationship, that the bond of just the two of you fuels him...and fuels him in a way that he can't get in any other relationship. Pat always says that you have to 'feed' a man because he won't feed himself and that feeding is that he KNOWS by your receptivity that he can make you happy. That's why we give them the 8 weeks...the space and time to miss you.
I just feel like it's unfair - one slip on my part and he's making this huge deal of it without even stopping to ask me about my true feelings... or at least giving me an opportunity to share them. And surely he would realize that I DO have feelings for him or I wouldn't have asked him to let me come over to make things right. If I didn't care for him I wouldn't have been so upset over the texting in the first place!
It is unfair, but these are the rules of the game. *I* think that he's coming back...but he needs to figure it out for himself.
He is pushing me away - rejecting me before I get a chance to reject him. And yet at the same time he's talking about "whether he can take it to the next level"???
*I* don't think he's pushing you away or he would have told you that it wasn't working and ended it...he's being pissy...but when you see what his pissy behavior is, you then get a chance to decide if his behavior does or doesn't keep him above the 51% that YOU need to keep him in your life--meaning that your life generally is better with him in it than without. Men test women all of the time. I frequently tell this story of my dad, who I always likened to a chained barking dog...he'd howl and bark and misbehave until my mom would unleash him....he'd run around the yard until he just got tired and then laid down again at her feet.
So maybe all of this combined in his head and he's spontaneously combusting... I am so utterly confused at what is going on with him right now.
It's all conjecture...the only one who knows really is him. But all that you can do is to practice self-care so that you're ready if and when you're ready to date others.
He has said I love you a couple of times, but I don't know how much importance to give it. The first was on the 3rd date but it was more like he blurted it out and I can't see that he meant it that early on. He said it again but it was in bed so... taken with a grain of salt. We talked around it once, more recently...he said I had to be the one to say I love you first and I said no he had to. So we danced around the subject.
It's so rare to hear a man say that he loves you; unless he gives you a reason not to believe him, you should believe him. Up until this week, he hadn't given you a reason to doubt that he had fallen. You don't need to tell him your real age or that you had a serious past illness.
Agreed, I don't want to tell him this until it's engagement ring serious. Not that it affects anything really (I am fine and healthy) but it's not something I share with just anyone. Same thing with my age. Is that totally deceptive? With him going MIA like this I'm actually glad I DIDN'T tell him these things - it would hurt me more to have opened up and then for him to walk away.
You're not walking away--he did. You're just moving on with your life--with or without him. Well I don't feel like I'm moving on... I'm in limbo. I guess I just refuse to accept that it's over yet.
You shouldn't accept that it is over for now; but you will know in a few weeks what he has decided.
March 10th would be 2 weeks since last phone call. Ugh I really hope I don't have to start duty dating again - I was so excited to finally get to delete that profile :(
OK so we've decided that March 10th your profile goes back up, right? Have you given any thought to either contact (or not) the guys who were in the online dating picture at the end?
Okay... that makes sense (I guess). They need to know for sure that they can't live without you, so they go away to test? (not that it's always a conscious decision)
No, they go away to suss out their thoughts and feelings. If someone hurts me, I have a difficult time feeling and thinking at the same time. I get hurt, I shut down; I need space and time before I'm physically able to interact. Men withdraw when they need to. It may be for play time, to bond with their buddies or to decide if they're ready to move up to the next step.
What I don't get (with J.) is the WHY this has to happen NOW, after only one month of dating. We don't even know eachother! I certainly don't expect him to make a decision about the rest of his life this soon... why is he putting this pressure on himself and our relationship? We haven't even met eachother's families - he's never met my friends.
Because men decide that they are ready for a wife and then goes out to find one that 'fits' the bill of what he thinks that he needs in his life. My GUESS is that from his perspective, he's already fantasized out marrying you, has told you that he loves you and has made all sorts of moves toward bonding with you and what he's 'feeling' is that you haven't reciprocated...i.e. the begging you to accept his facebook, the turning down his offer to sleep over, etc. He's thinking that he's been 'rejected' by you in little ways, so he acts out by his not showing up in your life, just like he thought you were not showing up in his. If you look at from his perspective he's asked and asked and asked for you to be his. He's TOLD you what he needs from you; you didn't always 'hear' him.
What would possess him to rush this and go into an 8ww so early on??? That's not normal, is it?
I'm not sure there's anything 'normal' in any relationship. Men think what they think, women feel what they feel. It happens when it happens.
So by pissy do you mean punishing me for what I said? Or punishing me because he feels like he's more into me than vice versa?
I think that he's hurt and the snippy comments are his retaliating by hurting you back.
I do think the standing me up the first time was testing me... when I didn't react he had to make it even worse the 2nd time so I really got the message...
I love the Alison Armstrong classifications of the males of the species beginning the journey from boyhood to manhood from that of a knight to a prince, and ultimately a king. All BOYS have dreams of travels to strange and far and away lands, and their adventures in those lands as a rise to the challenge of their personal worthiness and their place in their their kingdom by nothing more than acts of courage and vallor. But it is those steps--to stand before any adversary with courage and conviction are the moments that define him both by a challenge and the necessary changes to make him a man.
If he's seriously considering 'the next level' then for as much as he wants it, he has to really, really be ready to fully understand that he's giving up every bit of his natural inclinations--his freedom to do what he wants when he wants, to spread his seed far and wide with every mating opportunity gone forever, the financial responsibilities of a wife and children--meaning that it's not just him when he has a bad day and wants to tell his boss to take this job and shove it; any dreams he had of 'someday...' fill in the blank--being a race car driver, jumping out of planes or fulfilling his bucket list dream of taking a month to go climbing to the top of mt. kilimanjaro. it's far easier for a woman to bend herself into become 'his' because she isn't saddled with the 'forever' responsibilities....and you're complaining because he needs a couple of days??? The perspective of the forever of your lives together can handle a couple of days. That's why I said to you that it might be that for today, his answer may be that no, he's not ready but he may come back at some point when he is. If his decision is for today, that he's not ready, then you need to respect that choice and to move on to a man who's ready--if you are. As a woman, it's your birthright to be a wife and a mother if that's your dream. Don't ever let ONE man make that choice for you.
I'm going to force myself to re-read this paragraph every time I start going crazy over this. Very helpful Fran, thank you. I have to remember the big picture and that I have to ultimately take care of myself and my own goals... as much as I can see a future with him. :(
You're very welcome.
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