Hi Fran: just got off the phone with J. My goodness men DO have a 6th sense about other men sniffy around . Literally 30 mins before that I got a text from the firefighter Phillip I met last night asking me out. And of course still have the date scheduled on Sunday with Paul.
Anyway, he said he missed me, that he knows he screwed up, that he knows he wants to be with me and wants to marry me and is going to do "whatever it takes." I let him lead the conversation completely so there were a few long silences.
Perfect M.! You have to let a man say what he says, go back for another dip into his well of feelings, and come back up with more... I'm proud of you.
He said he was scared to call me because of how he acted like a jerk because of his 'fears' or something... all I basically said in response was that I missed him too, that it was nice to hear from him and that yes he had hurt my feelings.
He wanted to come over tonight (at 10 pm - as if!) - said he just wanted to "hold me" not have sex but I said no of course. So he said he's calling me first thing in the morning.
So... I feel happy that he resurfaced, but sort of sad at the same time because I am unsure of what to do next. I'm still upset that he put me through this and now I don't know what I want to negotiate with him.
Oh and he alluded to other guys but I dodged the question. What do I do about that - lie and say I didn't meet anyone? Cancel the dates?
Honestly, he hurt me so much by withdrawing that I'm confused about exclusivity now. I don't want to go through an 8ww again with him... HELP! I need to know what to say when we meet (maybe tomorrow). Thanks in advance xoxo.
M.--now it comes down to how do you FEEL?
Are you ready once again to go exclusive? are you ready to be exclusive without an engagement ring? are you going to ask for more time to become exclusive so that you can sort out your feelings while he rebuilds a trust worthy track record? are you going to say to him that you don't feel safe going off of the market without an engagement ring? Are you so hurt that you want to go on the other dates for a comparison?
*IF* you're asking me my opinion, I would be very clear that it is your deepest desire to be a wife and mother and if he can't give that to you, that you need to find a man who will fulfill those dreams. I would tell him that you don't feel safe going off of the market without a ring and that you're not pushing him; but you are going to continue to date other men until one of them proposes with an engagement ring. THEN you'll know if he wants to marry you or not. I tell women all of the time that an engagement ring only means that you may not get married; but it will be an indication that he means the commitment that he's offering you right now. An engagement means that you're ready to explore whether or not to spend your lives together as a step up from dating--but you're not married, yet. Be very cautious about behaving like a wife if you're not one.
Hi Fran, Actually, as of right now I have nothing to report. He didn't call me yesterday morning like he said he would (ok whatever; I let it go) and then around 11pm I got a phone call from the concierge in my building. I didn't pick up... I never answer my phone that late. Joe texted 2 mins later that he had stopped by with a gift for me but that I wasn't at home. Ugh - 11pm?? What the heck?
Anyway, I debated whether or not to respond to the text since I'd already expressed my feelings about that to him, but when I didn't hear from him by 2 pm I decided fine, I will write back. So I said - "That's sweet :) sorry I missed you". He writes back "Were you on a date?"
I haven't responded. I don't even know what to say to that. I'm so disappointed in him. His words (that he misses me, wants to be with me, will do "whatever it takes") do not match his actions. I would have thought he'd be trying to find time to see me this weekend instead of showing up unannounced at 11p.m., and now asking about other guys. Why doesn't he want to SEE ME?!? Am I overreacting? I don't know why he's being like this - this is not how I envisioned him coming out of the "cave." Part of me feels like maybe he should have stayed there.
Wow--I'm not sure of what's going on with him except maybe he's still overwhelmed with work...
I usually let guys know that I'm on a 9 a.m. to 9 p.m. schedule and they are welcome to contact me during those 12 hours...if you haven't told him that you have a time boundary, you can't expect him to know.
I would be honest in telling him that you weren't expecting company that late and just presumed that the conceirge dialed a wrong number and of course, you weren't on a date.
You have to know M., that you can't ask for 'soul gifts' from him. you can't ask for more, better, different, time, sex, love or affection. Either you're going to accept what he offers you, or reject it. he did make two attempts to see you this weekend--one to hold you, one to gift toyou...they weren't the gifts from him that you wanted; but you don't get to orchestrate the relationship. Either you want this to continue forward or not...you get to decide; but you don't get to be pissy over what you feel is his lack of attention.
I don't think I ever told him a specific time boundary, but I just feel like it's a common courtesy thing, don't you? He's never initiated contact that late before. He is also a grown man and most people are aware that you don't show up unannounced at 11pm at night. Or (on the night before) ask to come over at 10 pm when you've been bloody MIA for 3 weeks. Especially since I'd already been upset over the whole 'booty call' thing before. It just doesn't make me feel very special.
However, no, I would never tell him that or ask for more/better/different. Just to clarify, I'm not going to get pissy with him - I'm pissy here with you because I need to vent and sort out how I feel :(
I wasn't going to respond to the text about whether I was on a date, but I just did - I said no of course not. I don't want to communicate by text and I don't think I can be exclusive with him if I'm going to feel like this... however that's a discussion we would have to have in person.
I can only conclude that this was just him "peeking out" of the cave to check that I'm still here, but he's not done his processing yet. I feel like he's letting his insecurities take over. He's obsessed with me not seeing other people yet he's not standing up to the plate himself. I don't know what I'm supposed to do in the meantime... I feel horrible.
M., masculine men are busy building empires and fit in dates whenever they can. *I* think that it's common courtesy not to show up at 11--on the other hand, it might have been a lovely surprise to have a gift and your guy show up at 11 unannounced. His not 'calling first thing' as he said, is a different story.... and I don't like the deriliction; but you can't ask him why he didn't call; whatever it was, he had a reason. Asking him why and expecting a response turns you into his mother, not his lover. If late in the evening is an issue, you're going to have to tell him your reasons...i.e. that you are typically in bed by ten thirty and off to sleep or you can't concentrate at work the next day....
I don't believe that he's peeking out--he told you that you're the woman that he wants to spend the rest of his life with; the two of you just have a disconnect between relationship styles. To him, you're there, ready and waiting; in your head, you're still wanting him to continue to pursue... the two of you definately need a discussion about your feelings and what he thinks...
Hi Fran, So here is my report on last night. You were right - he wasn't just peeking out of the cave. Apparently while we were apart he has decided this is it... whereas I had been trying to emotionally detach myself. So it was a lot to digest and quite emotionally overwhelming.
He gave me a big long speech about all the qualities he loves about me, what a great wife and mother I will make, how chemistry like ours doesn't come around often and that he's never felt this way in his life.
He said how much thinking he had done while we were apart, how much he missed me, that he needed to know for sure that he wanted to be with me, and now that he knew he was never going to mess things up again. Apparently he was pseudo-set up with a couple of other girls in group date settings and that too made him realize how special our connection is (I wasn't too happy about this but he said he never kissed or had sex with them). Also the fact that I didn't bite his head off when he first called on Friday night... he said most girls would have and he knew I must care about him when I didn't.
Please note the lesson. I stress this all of the time. THIS is 'receptive' at it's purest; when you don't want to be, you still listen to a man with an open heart; not because you really want to, but because what you get at the end was worth doing so.
So he formally, seriously said he loved me several times and that he wanted to just "get this done" - engagement, marriage, etc. Asked what kind of ring I want, did I know my ring size and do I have a friend who could help him pick something I like. (I'm not quite clear on whether the gift was some kind of promise ring - he said he wished he'd brought it with him but I didn't ask for details.)
Anyway, it was so much to digest and I ended up crying at one point, so I don't think I ended up saying anything I had planned to, other than sharing my feelings on how sad I felt during the 8ww (er, 3 weeek wait ). I think I hinted about non-exclusivity and he was like "well, you can waste your time seeing other people..." so I dropped it. Basically he brought up the ring thing before I even could so I had nothing left to "up the ante" with... he said if that's what I need to feel safe then it's going to happen sooner rather than later.
I still feel that I need to talk to him about the specifics of our "contract" - how often we see eachother, what his timing is going to be for this ring, etc.
And of course we should probably talk about all the stuff in a relationship contract. Re: timing, he did say his lease is up in August and he's going to buy something then so will need my help finding "where we want to live."
So where we left off is that he wants to see me one night this week (I think Wednesday) and before then I'm supposed to research rings... He said he wants to take me away for the weekend as well.
I am happy - still wrapping my head around all of this but happy. It's very rushed but there is a comfort level I have with him that I've never felt with other guys... like he "gets" me. (And he absolutely does not let me lead, so I end up feeling silly inside for getting so worked up about things like I did yesterday afternoon. He was at the hospital all day - his cousin was having a baby.) Anyway there you have it.
M.--I couldn't be more thrilled for you...I have to admit that I find the line about your wasting time with other men very hot!
This is where you let him lead--if he tells you to go shopping for a ring--go shopping and don't get upset that you didn't get a surprise. If you don't want to pick the specific ring, you could tell him that you like round stones or radiant cut--a plain band or Etruscan styled. Also, I would be scouting neighborhoods for places that you would like to live--or not. I.e. a good school system area verses young hip hang out spots.
Yes, of course, he had to take the time and thought processes to be ready for a wife and children...and his being set up for comparison was exactly what I had asked you to do in accepting other dates... Everyone falls in love when no one else compares.
Since this is still a little shaky, I'd wait until you had your ring before discussing your relationship contract...in other words not rocking the boat until you had the rock--but it does have to be done--and he has to do one as well.
With his being overwhelmed at work, especially since you know that he's going to make you a wife and mother, he's going to have some big expenses--like your ring, a wedding and to purchase a home. He's very much in the 'building his wealth' period of his life--so if it were me, I'd be cutting him some slack in spending less time with you now to build a solid financial future with you and your children later. Pat says a once per week date is necessary--so if he can't see you more than once per week for a 'date', then you need to decide if seeing you at 11 p.m. is something you can compromise on--because it may be that late in the evening when you see him once you're married anyway. Again, listen to your comfort level and be as receptive as you can possibly be. You're now HIS woman.
C. came into the conversation and I said to her:
I'm so happy for M.--I really think its going to happen for her--but she needs to get out of her own way--and that's what I'm worry about....a traditional relationship is not Burger King (you have those in the U.K., right?) ....the old Burger King expression was 'have it your way'...and it has to be his.
C. said: She reminds me of me!! I would be just the same! I really really hope this unfolds beautifully for her. Bless you for helping.
It's scary for all of us to give up control to a guy that really hasn't earned a trust worthy track record with you--and truthfully even one that has. I love sailing so I liken this to turning your sails into a man's wind and letting him take you on a journey that you would not have had, had it not been for him.
Some years ago, I had a male friend who was married who used to say all of the time that he and his wife fought and what kind of marriage is it if we're both going in different directions? I've never forgotten that. Masculine men are natural born leaders; he won't change who his is at his core, so if she wants him, he has to know that HIS woman had to trust him enough to let him lead her and their lives together--and that means not being pissy about his wanting to see her just to hold her at 10 p.m. or whatever M. decides is 'appropriate'. You're not going to win every battle; pick the one's worth fighting.
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